[MLB-WIRELESS] Proposal: MWRP at Scouts Jamboree

vak vak at alphalink.com.au
Sun Feb 12 18:04:59 EST 2006

Hi Guys,

I've given some thought to this problem and my suggestions are as follows:

1) Get a bidirectional sat feed from one of the telcos (Telstra, IPstar, 
Satteline, etc).

The reason for this suggestion is that if reliability has been an issue 
in the past, 5 wifi hops back to melbourne could prove a bigger headache 
than anything. If the service providers are pushed to donate their 
services, they might even put in a dedicated microwave and/or LMDS link 
back to the mountain and provide a data feed for the duration of the 
Jamborree. Another possibility (if there is copper in the ground close 
to the site) would be multiple ISDN basic rate services bonded. Basic 
rate should be available at most country exchanges now (can anyone 
confirm this ?). Basic rate should be able to achieve the distance 
required. Primary rate would be better, but distance would almost 
certainly be a problem. GPRS would simply be too slow. It would be 
unlikely that WCDMA is installed out there.

2) Once a permanent external link was setup, Melbourne Wireless could 
put in a distributed wifi network (including the backbone) to provide 
both telephony & data services. I'd be surprised if there was no 
GSM/CDMA coverage up there already (but it would be worth someone 
checking this out prior to the event). In any case, we could deploy a 
VOIP solution to link each of the offices/major gathering spots together 
and potentially if there was a method to get onto the PSTN network 
(either via PSTN/BRI/SIP gateway on the net), we could also offer 
limited calls out to the rest of the world (depends who is footing the 
bill). Think of this as a psuedo payphone replacement.... If someone was 
able to convince one of the manufacturers of video phones to put 
something in, it might be a bit of fun for the people on the ground to 
talk to each other.

To roll out a wifi network, the scouts could look at approaching Hills 
to donate some of these:: 
http://www.smartbridges.com/products/aP2NP.asp  for the duration of the 

They are dual radio AP's 2.4 & 5.8Ghz. We'd use the 5.8Ghz radios for 
the backbone and 2.4Ghz for local distribution.

Are there going to be internet kiosks/internet van/tents setup ? 
Administration tent ? etc ?

The remote AP's could either be powered by small gensets or if 
connectivity is not critical, solar panel/wet cell/inverters.

How long is the event for ?


Simon (NodeIRC) wrote:

> Introduction:
> The Scouts are having their Jamboree (National Camp) next year in 
> Elmore, Victoria (North of Melbourne, near Bendigo). Having been in 
> Scouts and having been to the Jamboree in Sydney(2000), I remember 
> that the Internet access was totally unreliable and unbearably slow. 
> The idea before I left for Sydney was to post the Scout Troop's 
> activities and photos for the parents to see at home from our Troop's 
> website. In practice I had to queue in front of a small portable room 
> for an hour, just to get five minutes of Internet Access. (A Scout 
> Troop is a contingent from a Scout Group)
> The portable room consisted of the most unstable recycled hardware 
> which caused constant crashes (which seemed like every 5 seconds). The 
> Internet connection consisted of a Satellite connection downstream, 
> and a 28.8k modem connection upstream (shared with 15 PCs). I am not 
> exaggerating, and it definitely wasn't enough to get anything done.
> The Scout are expecting 13,000 scouts. I'm not sure how many Troops 
> are going to be there (each one would probably have 1 or 2 leaders 
> that would be using the Internet Access to communicate back to the 
> families). I don't know how large the site is either (I'm guessing at 
> least a few square kilometers).
> Melbourne Wireless currently has a relationship with the Hawthorn 
> Scouts. We use their hall and we helped them run a Wi-Fi wide game.
> Proposal:
> I propose that Melbourne Wireless initiate a partnership with the 
> Scout Association to deploy MWRP nodes to blanket the camp site with 
> 802.11b/g, deploy a long distance Bi-Directional link back to 
> Melbourne. The Scouts (with all of their influence) could organise an 
> Internet backbone with a large ISP (Like how Telstra provided the poor 
> Internet connection and hardware in Sydney 2000). Implementing 
> filtering/proxy/cache/authentication (Open Source/Free ie: ICRAplus 
> //, Squid, ChilliSpot) shouldn't be too hard, but let's not count our 
> chickens before they hatch.
> If this proposal is popular with Melbourne Wireless, is successfully 
> presented to the Scouts, and they accept our proposal, we will be 
> building a stronger relationship with the Scout Association. In return 
> for providing a wireless network for a the Jamboree, the nodes can be 
> redeployed at various Scout Halls to help with our 'Backbone' upon 
> conclusion of the camp. The equipment would belong to the Scout 
> Association (and is theirs to redeploy at their Scout halls), so it 
> would be expected that they pay the equipment costs.
> It would also be a practical testing opportunity for the MWRP nodes, 
> under real load conditions.
> Benefits to us:
> - MWRP testing opportunity
> - A way to get financing for MWRP nodes (even if we don't own them)
> - Relationship with a large organisation with city wide physical 
> infrastructure (scout halls)
> - Exposure to scouting members (potential MW members with expertise in 
> Linux/Networking/RF)
> - Exposure for regular members to connect to the MW network
> Benefits to them:
> - Complete infrastructure to provide Scout Troops (Scout Leaders and 
> permitted Scouts) with Internet Access using their own equipment 
> (Laptops with Wi-fi - Troops can source one to borrow from one of the 
> families if none of the leaders have one) during Jamboree to 
> communicate with parents and keep a Diary of their Adventure.
> - After Jamboree, the Scouts will have direct access to the MW network 
> for their own uses (ie: Wi-Fi Wide Game like Hawthorn Scouts, Reduced 
> Internet Access costs by not having to subscribe to an ISP for 
> low-level usage 4 times a month).
> - A mutual relationship with another community organisation (Melbourne 
> Wireless) which is a positive thing.
> I would also like this bring this up at this Friday's meeting, if 
> there is a positive response from the list.
> Opinions? Feedback?
> - Simon Gnieslaw.
> Useful Links:
> http://www.getinthegame.com.au/content_new_photos.htm 
> <http://www.getinthegame.com.au/content_new_photos.htm> (Site Photos)
> http://www.aj2007.org.au/
> http://www.getinthegame.com.au/
> http://www.vicscouts.getinthegame.com.au/
> http://www.scouts.com.au/
> http://www.scouts.asn.au/
> http://www.vicscouts.asn.au/
>Melbwireless mailing list
>Melbwireless at wireless.org.au

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