[MLB-WIRELESS] Solar power system

Wed Apr 22 18:27:27 EST 2009

according to reading I've been doing (e.g. ATA) RECS are kinda bad.

quick version: RECS sold by producers to polluters allow polluters to
offset their current emissions against future savings represented by
the RECS... That's bad enough but the new scheme greatly inflates the
number of RECS a given system produces - so it's feasible that selling
your RECS allows e.g. a coal burner to produce up to 7 times the
amount of CO2 that you are saving...

what bugs me now is finding a power company to buy my solar power
without contractually grabbing my RECS too.

fundamentally in order, my recommendation would be as follows:

best bang for buck environmental power spend...

1) buy 100% accredited green power
2) install insulation
3) buy solar panels but refuse to sell RECS

current $8k rebate is better deal than future increased RECS scheme as
new scheme is ONLY RECS.

check out the ata website for more info.

On Tue, Apr 21, 2009 at 9:33 PM, Nigel Zeinert <nigelz1 at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi All
>
> I just thought i should add my 2 bob's worth to this discussion.
>
> The REC credits are often sold/assigned to the installer. You don't have to
> sell your credits, but it is often a term of the installer's contract. For
> example: Clear Solar buy your credits for $1450. That's OK but the current
> price for a REC is $69. So Clear Solar is banking on the cost of the REC
> credit to increase to recoup the $1450. After July 2009 the price is
> predicted to go up.
> see
> http://www.clearsolar.com.au/New/temp2_hpm/quote.php
>
> So the government is not giving you anything if you sell the REC credits to
> the installer.
>
> nuenergy are giving the system away for free.They are banking on the REC to
> increase a lot.
> http://www.nuenergy.com.au/pvsolar.php
>
> I don't know if the REC will increase but if they do you will not benefit.
> see
> http://www.orer.gov.au/recs/
>
> So if the government does change the system (I think they will) then a 1kW
> solar system may be worth 105 REC's. If this is the case then Clear Solar
> and nuenergy will have a nice winfall, assuming the price does not fall
> below $13.80 per REC (it has been as low as $9).
>
> Regardless whether you sell or keep the REC's, the $8,000 from the
> Australian Government is still a good deal.
>
> So think about not selling your REC's to the installer. ( If I had a roof on
> the north side of my duplex i would install a solar system, and I would keep
> my REC's. )  (I can't get solar) :(   )
>
> Also you will be lucky to get 10years from your inverter.
>
> Nigel
>
> On Tue, Apr 21, 2009 at 9:28 PM, Nigel Zeinert <nigelz1 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> Hi All melbwireless at wireless.org.au
>>
>> I just thought i should add my 2 bob's worth to this discussion.
>>
>> The REC credits are often sold/assigned to the installer. You don't have
>> to sell your credits, but it is often a term of the installer's contract.
>> For example: Clear Solar buy your credits for $1450. That's OK but the
>> current price for a REC is $69. So Clear Solar is banking on the cost of the
>> REC credit to increase to recoup the $1450. After July 2009 the price is
>> predicted to go up.
>> see
>> http://www.clearsolar.com.au/New/temp2_hpm/quote.php
>>
>> So the government is not giving you anything if you sell the REC credits
>> to the installer.
>>
>> nuenergy are giving the system away for free.They are banking on the REC
>> to increase a lot.
>> http://www.nuenergy.com.au/pvsolar.php
>>
>> I don't know if the REC will increase but if they do you will not benefit.
>> see
>> http://www.orer.gov.au/recs/
>>
>> So if the government does change the system (I think they will) then a 1kW
>> solar system may be worth 105 REC's. If this is the case then Clear Solar
>> and nuenergy will have a nice winfall, assuming the price does not fall
>> below $13.80 per REC (it has been as low as $9).
>>
>> Regardless whether you sell or keep the REC's, the $8,000 from the
>> Australian Government is still a good deal.
>>
>> So think about not selling your REC's to the installer. ( If I had a roof
>> on the north side of my duplex i would install a solar system, and I would
>> keep my REC's. )  (I can't get solar) :(   )
>>
>> Also you will be lucky to get 10years from your inverter.
>>
>> Nigel Zeinert
>>
>> 2009/4/17 Peter Buncle <peter at nmc.net.au>
>>>
>>> <quote>
>>>
>>> I'm hoping they have some zenners in that circuit, or the inverter
>>> drawing 2 much will be very un friendly for the poor charge circuit, sadly
>>> there is normally no protection on it. (As there is normally large banks of
>>> batteries to take any slack)
>>> You might also want to look at this issue,
>>> The money you get back from this is negligable compared to the amount
>>> they charge for there energy, so the most ecconomical thing to do, is either
>>> detatch from the grid, or make the amount going back into the grid quite
>>> small (by using it yourself),
>>>
>>> If anyone needs and help / advice, feel free to let me know as I'm
>>> licensed for btg solar systems.
>>>
>>> </quote>
>>>
>>> ---------------------------------------
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Ahh no offence but what the heck do zenners have to do with this ???????
>>>
>>> At last check , the normal function of a zenner diode was to limit a
>>> voltage to it's
>>> designed depletion zone break down point.
>>>
>>> Not to mention the biggest zenner diode power rating I've seen is 1w ,
>>> hardly suitable for a 1000w
>>> solar system unless properly designed into a regulator.
>>>
>>>
>>> There are **NO**  batteries, it's a grid connect system **ONLY**
>>>
>>> The configuration is that the panels connect directly to the grid connect
>>> inverter as per a NORMAL
>>> grid connect system which is a much better way to do it in metro anyway
>>> !!!!!!!!
>>>
>>>
>>> Why waste your time, money and energy on batteries ?????  Get a UPS if
>>> power interruption is a concern to you !
>>>
>>> Unless your an off grid user in the bush the losses and massive cost
>>> involved in charging / discharging
>>> batteries make them a waste of time.
>>>
>>> And the thing that really pisses me off with batteries,  they are a crap
>>> energy storage medium for cyclic use.
>>>
>>> The recommended discharge on a cyclic system is something like only 30%
>>> of their capacity !!!!!!!!!!!!!
>>>
>>> I mean WTF !!!   Bring on super caps please !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
>>>
>>>
>>> But there are other rebate programs to cover that scenario if there's no
>>> option anyway.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> This system's advantage as per most grid connect systems is by reducing
>>> your power bill by
>>> an average 4kw hours per day where your not drawing that power from the
>>> grid.
>>>
>>> (based on Melbourne's average 4hrs a day ish  of sun hours)
>>>
>>> Ie , with this size system it's unlikely you'll put power back into the
>>> grid
>>> but you'll get the saving regardless as .long as your using the power
>>> normally
>>> during the day.
>>>
>>> But the Govt announced a credit system, so you'll get the credit for the
>>> power
>>> against your bill even if you don't use it during the day.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> At the end of the day it's a great deal , and it's up to you to claim
>>> your 8k gov contribution for this
>>> if you see the value or miss out !
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Cheers
>>>
>>> Peter
>>> <insert suitable qualifications that I may have some idea>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ________________________________
>>> From: melbwireless-bounces at wireless.org.au
>>> [mailto:melbwireless-bounces at wireless.org.au] On Behalf Of Adam Grigolato
>>> Sent: Thursday, 16 April 2009 12:15 PM
>>> To: melbwireless at wireless.org.au
>>> Subject: Re: [MLB-WIRELESS] Melbwireless Digest, Vol 43, Issue 4
>>>
>>> I'm hoping they have some zenners in that circuit, or the inverter
>>> drawing 2 much will be very un friendly for the poor charge circuit, sadly
>>> there is normally no protection on it. (As there is normally large banks of
>>> batteries to take any slack)
>>> You might also want to look at this issue,
>>> The money you get back from this is negligable compared to the amount
>>> they charge for there energy, so the most ecconomical thing to do, is either
>>> detatch from the grid, or make the amount going back into the grid quite
>>> small (by using it yourself),
>>>
>>> If anyone needs and help / advice, feel free to let me know as I'm
>>> licensed for btg solar systems.
>>>
>>> On Apr 16, 2009 12:01 PM, <melbwireless-request at wireless.org.au> wrote:
>>>
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>>>
>>> Today's Topics:
>>>
>>>   1. Cheap Grid connected solar system (Peter Buncle)
>>>
>>>
>>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>
>>> Message: 1
>>> Date: Wed, 15 Apr 2009 20:27:18 +1000
>>> From: "Peter Buncle" <peter at nmc.net.au>
>>> Subject: [MLB-WIRELESS] Cheap Grid connected solar system
>>> To: "Melbwireless" <melbwireless at wireless.org.au>
>>> Message-ID: <D8B6081712400F449FDC8A403E1C4C6D0E07C0 at fserver.nmc.local>
>>> Content-Type: text/plain;       charset="us-ascii"
>>>
>>>
>>> I / we make no endorsment of this but thought we'd share the
>>> opportunity,
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Some of you may have heard some of us talk
>>> about a deal on a 1kw grid connected solar system,
>>>
>>> Well they're running the promo again this Saturday
>>>
>>> (althought the deal seems to have change slightly)
>>>
>>>
>>> The current deal as I understand it ,
>>>
>>> Get a 13k grid connected solar system for $2500 upfront with
>>> $1k post installation cash back.
>>>
>>>
>>> And bring a friend and get an extra $250 off.
>>>
>>> This Saturday only 10 , 12 or 2pm at Clear Solar , 1/137 rooks rd,
>>> Vermont
>>>
>>> Take your rates notice with your name on the to prove ownership
>>> of the property and a drivers lic
>>>
>>>
>>> It's being advertised on Gold 104 atm
>>>
>>>
>>> Quite a few of us opted for the larger more efficient 2kw inverter too
>>> so you can
>>> Add more panels later without inverter replacement.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Enjoy,
>>>
>>> Cheers
>>>
>>> Peter
>>>
>>> --
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>>
>
>
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-- 
Dr Paul van den Bergen