[MLB-WIRELESS] Is Melbourne Wireless dead?

[Steven Haigh]

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Dawid" <dawid at bigpond.net.au>
To: <melbwireless at wireless.org.au>
Sent: Thursday, January 20, 2005 12:25 PM
Subject: RE: [MLB-WIRELESS] Is Melbourne Wireless dead?


> "but as far as a metro wide mesh network that idea is dead and dusted."
> Dean
>
> I strongly disagree with that. Melb wireless is tinkering with P2P and
> attempting to roll out mesh as members grow, hoping that more people
> join the better the network. The problem is that there is no real roll
> out plan on how to achieve a MAN (metropolitan area network) or mesh,
> hence the view that it is dead and dusted, we need a savvy leader to
> drive this project. Simply because Melb Wireless is not attracting
> enough members and nodes to accomplish the wide area mesh.

Agreed. A true-mesh with Australias population density will not happen. A 
large interconnected network will, but by definition, a true-mesh won't 
work.

> What Melb Wireless is attempting currently is so that a node in
> Dandenong can have a chat to a node in Melton, this is a fantastic
> project in terms of network infrastructure and the learning curve. But
> how does it add value to the community, once the nodes are up and the
> mesh is running, fantastic we can have a wireless online party with our
> laptops with the pride that we are not using some incumbent to do it.
> Don't get me wrong this is a great achievement, but to what purpose but
> our own selfish reasons.

Agreed again. Melbourne Wireless should not be confused with ISP at this 
point in time. You probably won't get internet access, and you're going to 
have to make some effort to get yourself hooked up. If all you want is 
internet access, then you're probably best off going elsewhere.

> I propose that Melb Wireless draw up a plan to roll out a community
> network, with a deadline or a goal to reach by the end of a certain
> period. The view being that the 2.4gHz spectrum is a free community
> spectrum, it should be continued to be used as such and not taken up by
> the corporations who will use it to try and take over the wireless world
> (spectrum). Even as we get smarter antennas and mesh architectures the
> spectrum is going to be very noisy due to the support of the new
> wireless corporation entrants attempting to attract the mass market to
> its new wireless services.

We do have a plan in place. By the end of this committees term, we are 
hoping to have two major interconnected nodes (one being GHO, the other to 
be decided - possibly in the CBD) with access to internal services for 
members such as VoIP, Email, and offering basic routing + DNS for all. 
That's what we're aiming for, and it's a matter of working out the fine 
technical details to make it happen that is the interesting part.

> Who supports these companies? The community. So why can't we attract the
> community to Melb Wireless and grow the community network?

I believe this is a catch 22. You won't get more active members until the 
network grows, but without getting more active members, then the network 
won't grow. This is the main motivation behind MW supporting 2+ major 
routing nodes.

> I was at the State Library of Vic the other day doing some research on
> the Asian Telco's. Wanting to use a wireless connection at the library
> as all the PC's hooked up to the net were all being used. Told that you
> need to be subscribed to an incumbent to use the wireless facilities!!!
> At a public library!!!
>
> The most Democratic thing in the world is freedom of information, the
> public library serves this purpose. So here we have an incumbent using
> free spectrum in our public libraries to supply us with a free service,
> for a cost!!! And if your not subscribed to that particular incumbent
> than 'no service for you' (Much like Seinfeld's Soup Nazi).
>
> Melb Wireless can supply the libraries with access relatively easily,
> through the network we have all the contacts and the know how to do
> this. I will go into detail as how this can be accomplished later. This
> will also supply all the local areas of Melbourne with major nodes that
> will connect the mesh network more tightly and give the mesh network a
> super structure with concrete nodes to then service the community needs
> further.

This is a great aim for MW, but with the current infrastructure and legal 
situation, not possible. I would love to see this happen. I also see 
interlinking schools, and other community services to further our cause - 
but at the moment, this is not quite possible. We need to learn to walk 
properly before we start doing sprints.

> There has been talk last year about creating a service oriented WISP to
> share the cost of carrier licensing
> https://wireless.org.au/archives/melbwireless/2004/Oct/16948.html it is
> the link I had, although its down currently (Fenn bailey's proposal).
> This can still be used to create a non for profit WISP to supply the
> community, with a corporate arm to supply businesses that will then fund
> further expansion of the network.

This is an interesting point about carrier licenses. I raised the point at 
the last committee meeting that we may be able to get a substantial discount 
or explicit exclusion for the carrier license requirement. This is still 
under investigation, and may requre some lobbying.

> There is no money in ISP, but the little money that is there can go a
> long way to establish Melb Wireless, I don't want to see Melb Wireless
> "dead and dusted".

Money is one of the things we're trying to focus on raising - however we 
can. Our plans cost money, and we don't have millions spare - so we have to 
try to do the best with what we can, and try to encourage sponsers to chip 
in to finish the job off.

> Once the Mesh infrastructure is up, growing the mesh and its strength is
> all based on numbers. So how to attract the community, it needs to be
> community focused. By supplying the home with wireless net for a small
> fee we can create a green programme much like the Gas and Electricity
> companies do, although by them if you want to do the right thing you
> need to pay a premium. Our programme can be education focused (proceeds
> going to online learning or a free online library service or all
> proceeds go to helping the underprivileged by supplying them with the
> equipment for net access via another node!). The other method of payment
> (to those underprivileged) to the service could be based on a CRM (cause
> related marketing) (Brand Spirit, how cause related marketing builds
> brands - Hamish Pringle and Marjorie Thompson) the CRM can be that
> everybody who subscribes to this community service needs to give back to
> the community in some form, whether it be an affiliated community
> project within Melb.
>
> To get the attention of the Public Libraries is not difficult, they have
> recently been going through a political debacle as user numbers are down
> and are becoming cash starved as a result (I can go into detail if
> anyone is interested). It would be relatively easy to pitch to them with
> the right proposal and a strategy inline with theirs and Melbourne
> Wireless.

I can see this happening, however we're a long way from this point as yet.

> To gain larger customers like small businesses (with WISP services) who
> will pay (often a premium) for our services in return they receive a
> better branding (Cause-related marketing) as they are supporting a cause
> in Melbourne.

I don't want the line to blur for Melbourne Wireless between a community 
network, and service provider. Yes this may be possible, but it would need 
very careful consideration.

> The cause being the community network, bringing services to those in
> need, give a man a fish and he will not be hungry, give a man a fishing
> rod and he will never be hungry (plus can teach others and perhaps even
> start up a business within the fishing industry lol). By supplying the
> fundamentals we can begin to make a larger difference to the community
> and attract more attention to Melb Wireless which in turn will attract a
> larger mesh network.

Agreed. The sooner we reach a critical mass, the bigger and better aims we 
can have.

> We have the people to make this happen, raising interest from sponsors
> is not difficult, not with the right attitude, planning and team effort.

I would love to get some help around this part :)

> Well this may be a bit for some to digest, but I hope that it begins to
> make people think a little more of where we are headed and how we can
> influence the future. More importantly I do hope that our wonderful Melb
> Wireless President has the leadership qualities to really make a
> difference. I am sick of hearing great wireless projects being
> undertaken internationally, I think its time to let the world know how
> innovative Australians really are.

I'm going to try. We need to get a good solid footing to start a lot of this 
off. Australia is unique with it's very low population density, and that 
makes it very hard to get decent areas of excellent coverage. In some areas 
of the US, one node could potentially cover thousands of people - whereas 
here it would only be hundreds. This is the main challenge we need to 
overcome, by way of node density and major routing nodes. This isn't an easy 
challenge, but one I believe we can eventually overcome.

> Dawid Ostrowski
>
> Using the power of lateral thinking to create new ideas - Edward de Bono
>
> P.S. Did anyone tape the ABC's National Press Conference - Edward de
> Bono yesterday?
>
>


Signed,
Steven Haigh


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